The stupid Hebrew Israelites
Am I the only one who is absolutely sick of these fools?
Instead of celebrating their own West African heritage they try and steal the history of others. These self-hating idiots despise themselves.
You replied to Ike's post one second ago.
You have completely lost your mind, you find someone to represent the lost Egyptian culture over the Israelite one true God culture? I mean are you totally angry that the Israelites in a attempt to blend in with the rest of Africa rather than run to Europe where Alexander had come from they had run south, and why the reason Israelites settled on the coast of West Africa is Israelites were always a coastal nomadic people when they settled. They were known to be in the coastal cities of Egypt, eventually after the Philistines Israel, and Israelites were known to construct ships, after one of Israelites favorite meals are fish, scaled fish at that so small coasts and rivers are their thing. So just based off tradition culture, and proof that the Israelites had to be black based on accounts of Egypt by explorers like:
Anthropologist, Count Constatin de Volney (1727-1820), spoke about the race of the Egyptians that produced the Pharaohs. He later paid tribute to Herodotus' discovery when he said:
"The ancient Egyptians were true Negroes of the same type as all native born Africans. That being so, we can see how their blood mixed for several centuries with that of the Romans and Greeks, must have lost the intensity of it's original color, while retaining none the less the imprint of its original mold. We can even state as a general principle that the face (referring to The Sphinx) is a kind of monument able, in many cases, to attest to or shed light on historical evidence on the origins of the people." OR if this white explorer's account of Egypt isn't enough to see all people of that entire region. The Ancient Greek historian Herodotus, who visited Egypt in the 5th century B.C.E., saw the Egyptians face-to-face and described them as black-skinned with woolly hair.
Scientist, R. T. Prittchett, states in his book The Natural History of Man, "In their complex and many of the complexions and in physical peculiarities the Egyptians were an "AFRICAN" race (p 124-125).
What does this say about Israel who was a African race identical to Egypt in physical appearance?
Genesis 42:7-8
Now when Joseph recognized his brothers, but they did not recognize him, he spoke to them harshly, 'Where have you come from?'
"the history of others"
I don't think you have any idea of what your talking about, who debates in a sense that you are tired of stealing the history of who? China? They burned their history in a big fire. Otherwise I have something else for you, there is a civilization called Phoenicia lets talk about this for a moment
Phoenicia was an ancient civilization centered in the north of ancient Canaan, with its heartland along the coast of modern day Lebanon, Syria, Israel and the Palestinian Territories.
The Phoenicians spoke the Phoenician language, counted among the Canaanite languages in the Semitic language family. The Phoenician alphabet is the ancestor of virtually all modern alphabets. Through their maritime trade, the Phoenicians spread the use of the alphabet to North Africa and Europe where the alphabet was adopted by the Greeks.
In addition to their many inscriptions, the Phoenicians, contrary to some reports, wrote many books, which have not survived. Evangelical Preparation by Eusebius of Caesarea quotes extensively from Philo of Byblos and Sanchuniathon. Furthermore, the Phoenician Punic colonies of North Africa continued to be a source of knowledge about the Phoenicians. Saint Augustine knew at least a smattering of Punic and occasionally uses it to explain cognate words found in Hebrew. The name of his mother, Saint Monica, is said to be of Punic origin as well
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/PhoenicianTrade.pngA map will help the uneducated see that of course in advent of a exile Israelites would use the well known Phoenician routes to escape into West Africa, sense we are talking about already coastal countries.
We see EVIDENCE of a Canaanite country besides Israel having great knowledge of West and North Africa, and they Only Traded SOUTH not NORTH and when they did trade with Europe they used the African coasts.
Apparently these Africans suffered the same fate
The first millennium B.C. is the great age of Carthage in western North Africa, from its founding by Phoenician merchants in the ninth century B.C. to its destruction by Roman armies in the second. During its heyday, Carthage is a cosmopolitan center of commerce, culture, and the arts, where influences from across the Mediterranean world converge.
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/04/afw/04afw_lmap_enlarged.jpghttp://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/04/afw/ht04afw.htmYou say we reject our true religion, but West Africa is plagued by modern Abrahamic Religions, so apparently West Africa is used to "Abraham"
Despite the wide variety of cultures in West Africa, from Nigeria through to Senegal, there are apparent similarities in dress, cuisine, musical genres and wealth. Islam is the predominant religion of the West African interior and the far west coast of the continent; Christianity is the predominant religion in coastal regions of Nigeria, Ghana, and Cote d'Ivoire; and elements of indigenous religions are practised throughout. Before the decline of the Mali and Songhai Empires there was a sizable group of Jewish communities in areas like Mali, Senegal, Mauritania, and Nigeria. Today there are Jewish populations in Ghana, Nigeria and Mali. Along with historic migrations, these religions have culturally linked the peoples of West Africa more than those in other parts of Sub-Saharan Africa.
But wait, so your saying that West Africa is actually originally "Jewish" anyway???
Before the decline of the Mali and Songhai Empires there was a sizable group of Jewish communities in areas like Mali, Senegal, Mauritania, and Nigeria. Today there are Jewish populations in Ghana, Nigeria and Mali. Along with historic migrations, these religions have culturally linked the peoples of West Africa more than those in other parts of Sub-Saharan Africa.
My God, Ike you bring attention to things you probably shouldn't if you want to find us insane to represent Israel, but according to the encyclopedias West Africa has had Abrahamic influence even before, CHRISTIANITY and ISLAM!
So my friend IKE AWUGU in all you intel and prior knowledge, even you know that african "Jews" or Israelites predate all "organized" religions in WEST AFRICA.
History of the Jews of Bilad el-Sudan
describes West African Jewish communities who were connected to known Jewish communities from the Middle East, North Africa, or Spain and Portugal. Various historical records attest to their presence at one time in the Ghana, Mali, and Songhai empires, then called the Bilad as-Sudan from the Arabic meaning Land of the Blacks. Jews from Spain, Portugal, and Morocco in later years also formed communities off the coast of Senegal and on the Islands of Cape Verde. After the rise of Islam in North and West Africa these communities ceased to exist and have since disappeared due to migration and assimilation.
According to most accounts, the earliest Jewish settlements in Africa were in places such as Egypt, Tunisia, and Morocco. It is believed that these settlements may have been in existence as early as the kingdoms of David and Solomon, as well as during the Assyrian invasion of northern Israel in 722 BCE and the Babylonian captivity of Judah in 586 BCE in the Punic-Carthaginian age. These communities were augmented by subsequent arrivals of Jews after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE, when 30,000 Jewish slaves were settled throughout Carthage by the Roman emperor Titus.
My God Ike you lose! WEST AFRICAN SLAVES ARE ISRAELITES
Instead of being bitter do you homework
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_of_the_Bilad_el-Sudan_%28West_Africa%29Africa is identified in various Jewish sources in connection with Tarshish and Ophir.[1]. The Septuagint [2], and Jerome [3], who was taught by Jews, and very often the Aramaic Targum on the Prophets, identify the Biblical Tarshish with Carthage, which was the birthplace of a number of rabbis mentioned in the Talmud. Africa, in the broader sense, is clearly indicated where mention is made of the Ten Tribes having been driven into exile by the Assyrians and having journeyed into Africa.[4] Connected with this is the idea that the river Sambation is in Africa. The Arabs, who also know the legend of the Beni Musa ("Sons of Moses"), agree with the Jews in placing their land in Africa.
A further look into African Slavery Coming Soon
the Messiah release Date: 11/30?
Im sure that you are a nice person and so I try and say this in the least offensive way possible.
Yes, obviously the Egyptians were African. As a slave descendent, you probably know about as much about "Africa", as you do nuclear physics. Not all "Africans", look like West Africans. The Egyptians were "black" (or would have been called black by Americans) but they were black like Ethiopians, they looked like EAST Africans.
Ethiopian:
http://chora.virtualave.net/ethiopian-girl.jpgThe girl in this picture looks more like what the Egyptians did (likely) then you or I did.
There are many Jews in West Africa (the Igbo) ect. who may or may not have migrated. Still, the idea that MILLIONS of African Americans are the descendants of these Jews is far fetched.
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Egypt's neighbor is Nubia their close neighbor, I'm sure Egyptians either look like the people Sudan like the bible mentions or Nubia, also the bible mentions the people of Sudan in reference to Israelites.
There are many Jews in West Africa (the Igbo) ect. who may or may not have migrated. Still, the idea that MILLIONS of African Americans are the descendants of these Jews is far fetched.
Far fetched? But the entire West Africa, East African and North Africa Coast. They all claim to be exiled from Israel as one of the 10 tribes, of course we agree. Ike my friend, we have believed we were the Israelites sense slavery, this is nothing new and its not going anywhere.
Adherents of African American and African Caribbean Christianity had long developed a comparison of their experience in the New World with that of the Israelites held in slavery in Egypt, particularly as regards the Book of Exodus. From the mid-18th century a metaphorical embrace of a Hebrew identity was a major element of New World African spirituality. In 1800 members of Gabriel's slave conspiracy in Virginia identified themselves with the Israelites of the Old Testament, as did members of Denmark Vesey's failed rebellion of 1822.[1][2] Later in the 19th century an identification as ancient Hebrews developed from an identification with them.
We believed we were Israelites coming out of West Africa, remember we werent originally even allowed to read the Old Testament because of the talks of liberty.
The Church of God and Saints of Christ is a Black Hebrew Israelite religious congregation organized in 1896 by William Saunders Crowdy. They claim to be the oldest African-American congregation in the United States that adheres to the tenets of Judaism.
The entire West, North, and East part of Africa had good knowledge, and history with Israel and the Israelites, David, and Solomon himself had a wife from most likely Sudan.
This group accepts Islam another abrahamic religion, yet the Worship of Yahweh is unheard of and false? Some of the top mods of this group respect allah, I am yet to see where Islam comes from besides an old hindu religion.
Israelites have always existed before all these modern religions, the only two big religions at the time were Egypts and Israels, later Babylon in that region.
In retrospect there is no way you can deny almost all of Africa at one time recognized and respected the Israelites, there are settlements to prove this.
Again Israelites worship of Yahweh predate all modern religions in Africa especially Islam.
They were hunted and captured mostly by the light races, but in some instances non-Israelite African chiefs made wicked deals with the whites to capture the Israelites and sell them in order to save their own tribespeople.
This also because it wasn't their original land, the other Africans weren't going to go first knowing the Muslim slave trade was just as bad on Israelites and Africans, where are all these massive amount of slaves coming from before the year 1800?
Arab Slave Trade, from A.D./C.E. 700 to 1911: Estimates place the numbers of Africans sold in this system somewhere around 14 million: at least 9.6 million African women and 4.4 African men. The Forgotten Holocaust: The Eastern Slave Trade KAMMAASI / Sankofa Project Guide, 1999: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html
Where in the world does Africa get so many people before modern times? Populations aren't used to such a massive amount people in those times, where did they come from? oh I forgot Alexander pushed everyone back
By CE 1st century, Rome had conquered Egypt, Carthage, and other North African areas; which became the granaries of the Roman Empire, and the majority of the population converted to Christianity). Axum spent its religious zeal carving out churches from rocks, and writing and interpreting religious texts.
Well Yahwesha, I will say that I admire your devotion. You also seem like in real life you're a nice enough guy. No hard feelings, I'm just not 100% sold on the whole Israelite thing.
Even the Africans will respect our return
SUMER DEBATE
Precisely. You can't just say that they were of the same ethnicity because they inhabited the same geographical location. The Semitic people did to the Sumerians as any conquering people do the people they conquer: they take their land and, in many instances, co-opt their achievements as well. The Sumerians and the Semites (Akkadians, Babylonians, and Assyrians) were definitely black, but were of different ethnicities.
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MY RESPONSE
Cush was the father [d] of Nimrod, who grew to be a mighty warrior on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD; that is why it is said, "Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the LORD." 10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh, in [e] Shinar. [f] 11 From that land he went to Assyria, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, [g] Calah 12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and Calah; that is the great city.
I think we may have skipped one very important point.
The geographic context of the passage is shown to be distinctly Mesopotamian-Nimrod being the "builder" of Babylon, Erech, Accad and other southern Mesopotamian cities and then moving north to Assyria. After surveying previous attempts to identify an "historical" Nimrod, the author then suggests that the biblical figure is modeled after the combined traditions about Sargon of Akkad and his grandson, Naram-Sin. Nimrod is the son of "Cush"; Sargon began his royal career at Kish right after the flood. The Sargon-Naram-Sin traditions reached the Levant during the second millennium BCE, being combined by time and distance into a composite personality. The tradition reached its final form during the reign of Sargon II of Assyria, who added such themes as hunting to the story. The later editors of the Book of Genesis dropped much of the story and the Nimrod tradition was thus lost to later generations, save five remaining verses in the tenth chapter of Genesis.
So in saying so we know that Akkad's represent CUSH.
The Semitic language, and the semitic people, represent to way different points. If anyone knows anything about the semitic langauge you would know that it is a term for it.
The term "Semitic" for these languages, after Shem, the son of Noah in the Bible, is etymologically a misnomer in some ways (see Semitic), but is nonetheless standard.
The fact that Akkad's spoke "semitics" has nothing to do with their origin, they are the son of CUSH according to biblical account of Nimrod created the new cities of Sumer. From this same area came the people of Shem, sense either Assyria or Akkad represents Shem in the bible, we are to look back at Sumeria and draw the conclusion that Akkad is not responsible for the Semites just because the spoke what some would call a semitic language but remember to call this a misnomer(An error in naming a person or place) the original type of semitic language probably came from Cush. They were not the same people, the bible clearly defines that, but we do know that Babylon housed the Shemites or the people Sumer. It's a case of logic, and the bible can be extremely useful for accounts of who was a descendant of who.
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Hyksos Question
do you consider the hyksos part of Shem? if so, which son do they descend from.
MY RESPONSE
hyksos doesn't denote just one people, Hyksos was a word to point out that foreigners were here. At times even Canaanites were called Hyksos. I think it is a generic word to depict a foreign people living in the land of Egypt. Hyksos refers to a conquerer, and dweller in Egypt at different times. Please read this quote:
"This expression begins to appear as early as the late Old Kingdom in Egypt, referring to various Nubian chieftains; and as early as the Middle Kingdom, referring to the Semitic chieftains of Syria and Canaan. It is generally accepted that only the six kings of the Fifteenth Dynasty are properly to be called "Hyksos", because not only do they bear Egyptian royal titles, but they are specifically called Hyksos by Manetho."
It's important to note that the word Hyksos is ambiguous, it was used for a generic reason, in saying this were the Hebrew at one time called Hyksos? Perhaps, perhaps records were destroyed, and perhaps this war and expulsion of these people actually note the plagues and release of Israelites, from the vague description of course we know these were Canaanite people, Jacob or Israel was actually a Hebrew Canaanite lived in the land of Canaan. Lets use some logic for a moment, Moses represented all Hebrews, not just the Israelites. In saying this, a account of expelling the Israelites might not be so religious of a account by Egyptians, or Hebrews at the time for that matter. Many were not for Moses rules and died later.
Now the reason they say properly, because many see this as translating "Foreign Rulers" when this could have easily been translated to "Shepard Kings"
At the end of the 12th dynasty a people called "Hyksos" settled down in the eastern delta. After a presence in the country for about 150 years another hyksos dynasty (15) made a fortified capital of Avaris.
The Hyksos were foreign invaders who overran Egypt in the 17th century BC and established two contemporaneous dynasties. The 15th dynasty (1674-1567 BC) of the great Hyksos kings dominated the Hyksos vassal chiefs of the 16th dynasty (1684-1567 BC). Egyptians called these kings "rulers of foreign lands," translated in Egyptian as "hega-khase". Greek authors later rendered this as "Hyksos," which was mistranslated as "shepherd kings." For this reason many scholars believed the Hyksos to be the Hebrews, although there is no archaeological basis for this assumption. They were probably city dwellers from southern Palestine.
The period of their rule was a time of peace and prosperity for Egypt. They respected the native religions, maintained ancient Egyptian as the official language of the government, and allowed many Egyptians to serve in the high levels of the administration of the state. They taught the Egyptians new military techniques and introduced the use of the horse and chariot,
The Hyksos were unable to quell the feelings of Egyptian nationalism. They held the southern lands in check with an alliance with the Nubian kingdom of Cush. Despite this, the southern Egyptian city of Thebes finally began a war of independence that culminated with the expulsion of the Hyksos by Ahmose I in 1567 BC.
The rather peaceful dynasty 14 was hereby ended (like the Egyptian dynasty 13) and the new rulers of Avaris (possibly a new wave coming from the Palestinian region) were acting in a more expansive and military active way. They had their own gods but never imposed these on the indigenous people and the language in the administration continued to be Egyptian. They only one domestic god they worshipped was - Set, who they identified as their own god of storms. They seem to have adopted Egyptian manners, laws, and had trade relations with the Minoans and Babylonians. They were recognized by later Egyptians and listed as legitimate kings, but no tombs from these half a dozen rulers have been found and their personal names were non-Egyptian.
The kings claimed themselves pharaohs with all the regalia and tradition attached to that title and the more than hundred years they ruled northern Egypt was mainly a time of peace and prosperity.
A big advantage in combat was their introduction of horses (a new animal to the
Egyptians), previously unknown elements in the Egyptian army and they also introduced improved weapons. At most they had control down to the middle Egyptian town of Hermopolis and thus divided the Nile Valley into two parts with the Egyptian dynasties 16 and 17 ruling the south.
No hostility seems to have been between the two parts until the last 20 years
after a century of relatively peace. The 16th dynasty (possibly from the Abydos
region) may by time have been vassals to the 15th and then were taken over by
the 17th from Thebes. From there came the liberation war, initiated by Amhose I and completed by Thutmoses III, that finally wiped out the Hyksos dynasty.
After reading you notice that there is much speculation, but many conclusions can be drawn concerning the Hyksos. Can A Hebrew Israelite conclusion be brought sense the Hebrews were of mixed multitude. Of course, just look at the time lines we are considering here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Africa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_of_the_Bilad_el-Sudan_%28West_Africa%29
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/lemba.htm
http://www.haruth.com/JewsSouthAfrica.html
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qT-CLt87Mmc
Anti Israelite Propaganda
MY RESPONSE
I'm glad you put this up. Now Mr. Malachi is a smart guy, It's all about perception I don't think he makes one Important point a huge break through for ancient thinkers. Now we have Egypt, son of Ham, we have Akkad son of Ham. Now what Akkad did with their language some one Egypt spoke, brought it to the Sumerians. Sumerians spoke a primitive language that does connect to today's Hebrew Standard. What Sargon or Nimrod did was unite the sumerian language with the language he had brought, after mixing the two, you have a better result of what we call Hebrew today. In saying so, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that men all across the ancient east and Africa spoke similar dialects. So in retrospect did these men "STEAL" these names or were they already well informed on Egyptian "semitic" languages. It it evident that the sumerians a nomadic people were the Shemites. In saying so, there are huge implications that Shemites mixed with the Cush culture, later even Eber(Hebrew) family had a problem with other cultures. Israel was to be the only culture distinct from all the others. Abraham was not a Israelite, he spoke Hebrew, among Egyptian, similar through sumerian. He was told that his whole genetic make up would be changed. In doing so the super son Israel who was able to fight angels would later be born. Israel was born in Canaan and lived their his whole life until he was brought to Egypt later. They all spoke in which they could understand each other. I am working on some really important history theology and Messiah work which should kick off well. But yes Ishtar goes back to Sumeria, goes back to the Nimrod story, one must ask how they got knowledge of this story. Well Inanna was first worshiped by sumerians in about 4000 B.C., she was later found in Egypt to be worshiped as Isis in about 2500 B.C. So I dont know where Malachi has so much fun blasting Israelites because of the language usage, when any scholar will tell you from the beginning Semite and Cushite cultures crossed in the Eve supporting the notion that at time everyone spoke the same language, well we see evidence of this all over the East and Africa. Does not mean Israelites should pay for it. Christians are adopting the old Dieties which Yahweh banished because they are not alive, and he set out to prove to Israel's family after he died that He was real alive, ready to attack Egypt, Baylon, Canaan, or Assyria to prove that He could as God Himself build a nation in the mdist of all it's thriving nations, a nation that would end up saving the whole world. It's not that they didnt want anyone to know their real "Egyptian" lol i dont know about that, Egyptians didnt create the language, it began deep in africa and spread outward as semitic. So Malachi was smart in using language to decide someones perception, but in the end everyone basically spoke the same language wit different dialect. Much like Latin is English. Yahweh having his own perception of how he looked at Abraham and his name many times had much to do with his chosens present situation. Rather or not it had anything to do with another country. Abraham was not a Israelite, he would not meet Israel, he would not know anything bu the fact that he would father "MANY" nations. Not just Israel.
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